27 September 2013

Timeline Debate Islam or Atheism which makes more sense Tzortzis Nomani v Perkins Robinson in Swinburne, Australia


Debate Hamza Melbourne
Debate Islam or Atheism which makes more sense Tzortzis Nomani v Perkins Robinson in Swinburne

non-segregated
remarkably unremarkable.

6:20 Perkins starts
violence worldwide, no benefit either moral nor society, does not make sense, atheism does make sense
being human makes sense and gods are not required. What does make sense? Does that make sense? Why does it make sense?
Explains why the Koran does not make sense. Science is wonderful, the Koran is not.
13:00 origins of Koran and Islam
16:40 it would not matter if it did not do any damage - but it is harmful. No democracy or secularism.
Knowledge is haram.
20:33

Here's a discussion on "Knowledge is Haram"

Hamza
21:00 wants to walk out.  Demands evidence that "knowledge is haram". Either lying or misinformed.
Says Perkins spews lies, is unethical, demeaning, disrespectful, shows bad on the atheist tradition.
... and if you're wrong I want an apology.

Perkins is right, of course.
20:114 Do not be in haste with the Qur'an before its revelation to you is completed, but say, "O my Sustainer! Increase my knowledge."
3:190 contemplate the creation of the heavens and the earth
58:11 who have been granted knowledge
there's 10 or 11 of sentences all talking about knowledge or reflecting - but always in connection with the Koran and the revelation. It's just not spelled out like that.

The culture and the tradition are anti-knowledge, but not the texts as such, so that's a bad move to say it without explaining it.

I would use 2:32 They (angels) said: "Glory be to You, we have no knowledge except what you have taught us. Verily, it is You, the All-Knower, the All-Wise." to argue that nothing except which was taught by this god in the book he wrote is considered knowledge.

2:120 drives this further by saying that "after what you have received of knowledge (i.e. the Qur'an)"

2:255 "And they will never compass anything of His knowledge except that which He wills." repeats this.

Look at what happened to Malala, who was shot because she wanted knowledge from a school, not a Madrassa

So Hamza is just pounding his chest and acting. He gloats: I'm just trying to teach people manners.

Perkins gets stuck on Ghazali's "The Incoherence of the Philosophers" and gets it wrong, making matters even worse for himself.
Ghazali does bring about the death of critical thinking and separates cause from effect to make his god with his angels possible, but uses sound logics to achieve this. Of course he drops rational thinking and reason to do this, but does not say so. He also kills the myth of all-powerful by saying a thinking mineral is impossible. Even for a god.

24:20 repeats myth about Islamic Spain, when Europe was dark
24:45 will present 2 key arguments why Islam makes sense, will repsond to some of the lies and distortions later.
Oh god! I thought he had learned from the humiliating and slow death he had received from Professor Krauss. Not so. He brings up the same stupid and non-sensical arguments as he did when he had the very same topic with Professor Krauss. Nothing changed, the speeches are interchangeable, word for word.

Actually, what is hilarious is that he makes the point Perkins made very apparent, showing that knowledge for him is haram, because he manages to confirm his ignorance when it comes to infinity and the origins of the Universe.

He then proceeds with his usual "the Koran is beautiful" argument as though this proved something.

I've been through this so many times it gets tiring. I'll just skip it.

Robinson
41:00 Why I am an atheist, why Islam does not make sense. Factual, rational, sound presentation, showing the superstitious base of Islam which requires gullibity and the denial of modern knowledge.

Nomani
58:30 Pigs and prophecy are his argument. What a strange character.
He calls Hamza's case convincing, even though he did not make a case for Islam. He changes the topic from why Islam makes sense to "why atheism does not make sense". I'm beginning to wonder whether he actually knows what atheism means.

1:01:20 This crackpot now says he has a problem with what he calls the "entire atheist narrative". He completely ridicules everything he says by now claiming that atheists believe theirs is the only belief which is rational and which can be proven. What a joker!! Where did they pick him up? He demonstrates why atheists laugh about Muslim apologist so much.

After a few minute of this clown I was in stitches, giggling hysterically.

1:02:30 cosmology, clueless
while Hamza nods wisely

1:04:40 epistemology, atheism = scientific method, my initial fears are confirmed, this guy has no clue what atheism is and simply makes stuff up

1:08:30 morality, continues his nonsensical and primitive rambling



Perkins rebuttal (bad audio)
1:16:00 Does Islam deny democracy? No answer. Explains how "knowledge is haram" was meant. Points out some discrepancies. Nothing special.

1:21:00 Robinson, debating tricks, lack of knowledge

1:25:00 Nomani, talks without saying anything, rattles off names

1:29:40 Hamza, names, names. names. Calls this evidence.



1:35:00 cross examine

Hamza, science, traps Perkins, a non-scientist, who answers, instead of keeping quiet
What does this have to do with Islam? Nothing.

1:40:00 Hamza has just a minutes earlier claimed that Muslims 1000 years ago were so scientific and actually invented the scientific method and is now tearing it down as "mere" transmission from authorities we need to blindly trust, calling it testimonial. Which is it? Man, he really does not have the slightest idea of what science is, yet doesn't shut up about it.

1:40:20 Hamza does not understand the onus of proof, telling the atheists they need to provide evidence that the Koran is NOT of divine origins. It is his claim, he needs to prove it. The atheist, quite rightly, does not see the inimitibility claim as proof or even evidence because humans have in fact provided unique books and the challenge is as firmly worded as the Koran, nameley, not at all.

He does not understand science and calls the results "scientific truths", which is nonsense, and then claims people need to blindly trust scientists when they explain evolution. He does not understand that you can't believe "in" evolution and that any human can go and verify the claims or disprove them.

1:42:00 the joker asks whether the atheists question the truths Muslims believe, a preconceived notion, a loaded question and a presuppositional argument. What makes him assume that what he believes is true, when the Koran gets almost every factual claim wrong.

Both Hamza and the Nomani guy now provide a superb show of their ignorance, equivocating the fabricated hadiths with the scientific method. Astonishingly primitive, amazingly obtuse and delightfully inane.

Hamza must be the most retarded person I have seen in a debate. He says that the atheists have not provided any evidence except testimonial evidence, where he has quoted scholars. Is he really too stupid to realise that him rattling off names is nothing else? He says Perkins has not performed the scientific experiments regarding evolution himself and has to rely on others.
Then he goes and says someone wrote about Muhammad, centuries after he dies and this proves the existence of Muhammad.

This is the level of intellectual debate Hamza delivers. Mind-boggling.


Hamza later lies, when he says "It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon" and they "each  swims along in  its own orbit" in 36: 40 is accurate and correct and represents reality.

We also have "By the Sun ... By the Moon as she follows him…  91: 1-2

Bukhari then confirms this by stating the sun orbit Earth during the day and then waits to rise again the next morning.

He goes off into his old-fashioned rhetoric and rambles on, trying to knock science without understanding it.

Has he gone gay now? He calls Perkins my darling and pretends as though in the UK you call everyone "my darling". Do you?


1:54:00 Perkins apologises in advance and asks whether 65.4 is an example of morality, where girls are allowed to be married.

The joker asks whether the girl has menstruated as though this were the sole criteria. Despicable.

He does concede the point thay Muhammad had sex with a nine-year-old girl. He tries to justify it and the Muslims in the audience appload with ecstatic cries. That is what Islam does to people.

Hamza claims that the legal age in Greece for marriage is 13, Google provides the following:
The legal minimum age for marriage in Greece is 18 years for both men and women.
http://greece.angloinfo.com/family/marriage-partnerships/

What Hamza is referring to is this:
Muslim girls living in Thrace, north-east Greece, can expect to be legally married by the age of 13, without the state uttering a word against it. This is a violation of EU rules for the protection of childhood.

http://forum.sofeminine.co.uk/forum/carriere1/__f15_carriere1-Young-girls-legally-married-in-greece.html

It's really going for the worse here.

2:00:00 SMS Q&A

2:12:00 concluding statements

What do we learn at the end? Secularism is a disease.



Timeline "Codename Terror" w comments


Codename Terror 51:44


3rd lecture, Doha Fanar, Hamza Tzortzis
1:00    start, ritualistic mumbling, Muslims speak the truth
2:00    what is terror, examples, foreign policy, fighting, Islam foreign policy, Jijad
3:00    positive fruits of Jihad, removing obstacles and oppressors, foreign policy of The West, not humanitarian, but geopoloitical, landgrabing, natural resources
4:00    defensive and progressive Jihad, why fighting is permitted, is terrorism religiously motivated?

5:00    20 & 21st century bloody. Prof Carter bloodiest century ever (not surprising, is it), more people have died under the banner of secular ideologies, (wrongly) quotes the Koran as saying saving a life saves mankind and killing a life is killing all humanity.

6:00    Dr. Zibi Brzezinski, Out of Control: Global Turmoil

(1993, former National Security Advisor for the U.S. government, paints chessboard of worldpower)

provides deaths

(Hamza says 21st century, which is hardly possible)

87.5m people in politically motivated reasons, not 3000 in 9/11, which is wrong and we disagree with it (conspiracy theories???), 7/7 London is wrong and we disagree with it. Look, 87.5m people through state terrorism.

(what is terrorism for him?)

Fact:
"Lives deliberately extinguished by politically motivated carnage":    167,000,000 to 175,000,000    Including:      
War Dead:                                                             87,500,000
                   Military war dead:       33,500,000
                   Civilian war dead:         54,000,000
Not-war Dead:                                                    80,000,000
Communist oppression:               60,000,000
http://necrometrics.com/warstat8.htm

so it's politically motivated reasons. As usual, Hamza lies when it suits him.
Also, "he is unquestionably a paranoid-schizophrenic in the rigorous epistemological sense of that term." (Lyndon H. LaRouche)  


7:00    terrorism according to the UN is killing for politically motivated reasons,

(actually, UN tried and was stopped by Muslims (Organization of Islamic Cooperation) over 9/11 for right of self-determination (KSA denounced the “official state terrorism” carried out by Israel against the Palestinian people in their legitimate struggle against occupation for the right to self-determination) the entire minutes are available online)http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2012/gal3433.doc.htm

Hamza is talking absolute nonsense: "The UN has no internationally-agreed definition of terrorism."
http://www.humanrightsvoices.org/EYEontheUN/un_101/facts/?p=61
Why?
The prime reason is the standoff with the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), who want to exclude blowing up certain civilians from the reach of international law and organizations

Hamza goes from terrorism to war casualties to state terrorism being terrorism

8:00    We shouldn't kill innocent human beings, let's be just here, we have an epistemic duty (Epistemology is the philosophical study of truth and all things pertaining to truth. One discussion in epistemology is the concept of epistemic duty, the idea that there are truths that people have a duty to believe. ,

http://www.ehow.com/list_6953080_epistemic-duties.html)

if this is true that 87.5m people died through politically motivated reasons (untrue), via secular nations and states, then we need to start talking about what is the real terror, which here, without a doubt is state backed terrorism.

8:40    We saw this in Iraq, 1.2 million people dying (without specifying who and how).
             174,000 people documented killed in violence in Iraq since 2003

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/numbers/ten-years
The last 13,000 U.S/ troops were withdrawn in December 2011.

We saw this with the depleted Uranium on the tips of some bombs. (horrific) This is state terrorism.

9:00    We Muslims need to speak the truth even if it is against our own selves.

10:00  paraphrases hadith, where angel is ordered to destroy a town along with an overly pious man. Repeats the lie that
100, corrects himself, 87.5m innocent deaths for politically motivated reasons in the 21st century.

11:00  Repeats claim that this is the real terrorism. If discuss fighting it is quickly determined what the real terrorism is and who is committing the real terrorism.  We Muslims do naughty things.
(what a slimebag)
Break!

which everyone condemns (well, no) - BUT we need to call the spade a spade and look at the greatest terror, which we know is that the worst terrorism is the terrorism committed for politically motivated resons by secular nations.

Now the discussion should be what some people think terrorism is. Terrorism is not Jihad. I will take you on an intellectual journey. Anthropological studies on war and fighting. Fighting is a human reality. Different reasons, defence, attack enemies, gain land, natural resources and geopolitics. War and fighting are human phenomena and irrespective of race or religion.

Example: US and UK fighting for oil and strategic dominance in Iraq and Afghanistan. Even the support for Libya I would argue was more of a European project with the French and the British. Libya is important because it provides access to the resources of Africa and also because of oil.  So let's not be under any kind of illusion that when politicians come forward that this is humanitarian. Why are they not in other countries? It's because of American interests
(what happened to the Europeans?)
 (they prevent innocent lives 2x)

14:00  Islam is not a religion, but a worldview and a comprehensive way of life. Allah knows humans and humans fight, so Islam sets rules for fighting and how Muslims go to war. Muhammad articulated rules we find in the Geneva convention, ahead of his time. Divine revelation, like no killing of innocent people, no killing of women and children, no burning of crops and trees, only fight those that fight you, no wanton destruction.

15:00  Abu Bakr gave 10 rules to his army. This is what Islam talks about when we want to engage in fighting - after diplomacy fails (where does it mention that?).

(Joseph Schacht (1959). Origins of Muhammadan jurisprudence. Clarendon Press. p. 145. ISBN 978-1-59740-474-7. "Abu Bakr instructed one of his commanders to lay waste every village where he did not hear the call to prayer.")

We didn't come up with the term collateral damage, which means the killing of innocents. Every
16:00  The rights of the battlefield and the combatants, K5:32, giving a wrong rendition, lying through his teeth.

Therefore We ordained for the Children of Israel that he who slays a soul unless it be (in punishment) for murder or for spreading mischief on earth shall be as if he had slain all mankind; and he who saves a life shall be as if he had given life to all mankind.

I felt dirty at this moment, filthy dirty, physically and psychologically ill from listening to such an evil, despicable person and I
had to take a break. I just couldn't handle it.

17:30  We are not allowed to torture or attack a wounded person.

(5:33 - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides..."

8:12 - "Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their fingertips off them."

24:2 - "The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication - flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you."  )

(he cut their hands and feet and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron. Sahih Al-Bukhari
their cut hands and legs should not be cauterized, till they die. Sahih Al-Bukhari
their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes were gouged and then they were thrown in the sun, until they died. Sahih Muslim)

18:05  Prisoners of war should not be slain.

(When they reached as-Safra', he ordered that two of the prisoners should be killed. They were an-Nadr ibn al-Harith and 'Uqbah ibn Abi Mu'ayt, because they had persecuted the Muslims in Makkah, and harboured deep hatred towards Allah and His
Messenger sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam. In a nutshell, they were criminals of war in modern terminology, and their execution was an awesome lesson to oppressors.)

(In audacious defiance, he declared obstinate enmity to the Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam but admitted that Allah's Will was to be fulfilled and added that he was resigned to his fate. He was ordered to sit down, and was beheaded on the spot.)

(Only one woman of the Jews was killed because she had killed a Muslim warrior by flinging a grinding stone upon him. )

(Women captives were sent to Najd to be bartered with horses and weaponry.)

http://sunnahonline.com/library/history-of-islam/287-story-of-the-prisoners-of-the-battle-of-badr-the

Sahih Muslim 19:4321 explicitly condones the killing of women and children.

Abu Dawud 14:2665 has a woman laughing before she too is killed, while the men behind her are being executed.

innocent person should be mourned.

Trees should not be cut.

What is strange is that a piercing is prohibited because of this, but circumcision is not.

Sahih Muslim 19:4324 explicitly condones the cutting down of trees.

Sahih Bukhari 1:8:420 explicitly condones the cutting down of trees.

ibn Kathir: to humiliate them and bring fear and terror to their hearts, he ordered their date trees to be cut down


no one should be tied up and killed

was admitted into the audience of the Prophet with his hands tied to his neck with a rope… He was ordered to sit down, and was beheaded on the spot.



also we have teachings on the looting and destruction of the enemies country.

Yet every attack or battle talks about both. What was Muhammad’s profession? Pirate.

K8:1    The spoils of war belong to Allah and the messenger

During the sacred months they raided a Meccan caravan, looting it and “decided to kill as many as they could of them and take what they had.  Waqid shot Amr bin al-Hadrami with an arrow and killed him”

The only reaction was the instantaneous appearance of 2:217, where the Islamic god condoned the heinous and brutal act by his followers.

Some apologists come up with an explanation which has Muhammad claiming his own property, which was robbed from him when he left Mecca in a hurry. So does the reclaiming of your own property warrant the killing of the people accompanying the caravan? Would Muhammad share the booty if this was all his property? According to the narrative, the caravan was transporting dry raisins and leather and other merchandise of Quraish, no mention of Muhammad’s property.

But there was another raid on a Meccan caravan, where Muhammad ordered his men “This is the Quraish caravan containing their property. Go out to attack it, perhaps Allah will give it as a prey.”

19:00  We believe in the sanctity of a dead body.

How does this affect organ transplants, not foreseen and thus never mentioned in the Koran or the hadiths?

Also, there is a loophole: It is possible to mutilate the dead only in case of retaliation

Saudi Sheik Omar Abdullah Hassan al-Shehabi:
"The dead can be mutilated as a reciprocal act when the enemy is disfiguring Muslim corpses, or when it otherwise serves the Islamic nation. In the second category, the reasons include "to terrorize the enemy" or to gladden the heart of a Muslim warrior"

Is this why Muhammad asked during a funeral: “Is there anyone among you who did not have sexual relations with his wife last night?” Abu Talha replied in the affirmative. And so the Prophet told him to get down in the grave
Or why necrophilia in Egypt is ok for up to six hours?

Apparently, “I (Muhammad) put on her my shirt that she may wear the clothes of heaven, and I slept with her in her coffin (grave) that I may lessen the pressure of the grave.” This hadith exists multiple times.


When dead bodies were pulled out of a well, Unable to contain his joy Muhammad started calling them by name and bragged to the corpses about his victory. 

Why does the Koran mention several times unbelievers and that they will be killed, crucified and have their hands and feet cut off? Is this a matter of preference or scale?

We believe in returning the corpses to the enemy.

Well, not actually returning, but allowing them to be picked up.

We believe in the prohibition of the breach in treaties.

Well, except if it suits you to do so.

20:15  Take these amazing and beautiful values and contrast this with what happens in the West on a practical level.

1.2 million in Iraq. BBC 40% smart bombs hit their targets. (1999 Kosovo conflict)

War is always dirty. Why not prohibit it? Why not declare fighting and killing haram if your almighty god is unable to or does not want to create peaceful humans?

21:00  Zionists as example.

Zionism is the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to Israel and the protection of the Jewish nation in Israel through support for the Israel Defence Forces. Today there are separate movements, Political Zionism; Religious Zionism; Socialist Zionism and Territorial Zionism.

The IDF murdered 100s of POWs in 1956 and 1967.  (He forgot 1973 and 1982)

Is the fact that Israel killed Muslims the reason that Muslims kill non-Muslims all over the world? Is there any justification for this?


Why do we never see the mourning for the 3000 killed in XXX?
We see the 9/11 mourning every year, why not this one?
I am not saying we should compare the 2.
(So why compare them?)
Does it mean that the blood if a Muslim is worth less than that of a non-Muslim?

Is that what people are trying to say?

We don’t believe in this. We in Islam believe that every human blood has equal value in this perspective.

Israel was found to be complicit and Ariel Sharon, the defence Minister at the time was found to be personally responsible.

Israel Israel Israel

… and USA in South America.

24:35  Jihad. Jihad is a liberating concept. Jihad is when Muslims go to war and there are rules as discussed.

1.              Defensive
2.              Progressive Jihad

26:10  Muslims gather to expel the armies which have invaded their lands.

Did they do this when Kuwait was invaded? No.

Bla bla bla crusaders invading Palestine, Mongols, etc. No mention of methodology or weapons permissible.

Does this include blowing yourself up and killing 30 Muslims?

27:20  Progressive Jihad. Is practically undertaken by a legitimate Islamic state according to some ulema. No such state exists today. The ultimate objective is dawa. In reality.


Dawa via Jihad is removing the obstacles which prevent the establishment of the peace and justice and mercy of Islam. Removing oppressors, showing that the state is a humanitarian state. Therefore Islam demonstrates it is humanitarian.

Yes, as long as you join in the ranks of the Muslims. If not, you die.
What if a nation does not actually want the peace and justice and mercy of Islam?

Secondary goals of progressive jihad:
Removing oppression
Defending the weak
Implementing the justice and the mercy of Islam

… and this is where the problem comes in. Who in a free country wants the ruthless, cruel, restrictive ethics of the 7th century imposed on them? I don’t know anyone.

29:00  Coptic Bishop John of Nikiou, Heraclius abused people,  Bishop John says that people helped the Muslims.


Someone who wrote the historical text in Wikipedia does not agree with the version Hamza is trying to dish out and writes about 7th century John of Nikiou: John credits the Muslims for not destroying Christian holy places, but he also records the numerous atrocities committed against the Egyptians and the prohibitive new taxes placed on the native population. In some cases, the taxes were so burdensome that families were forced to sell their children into slavery.

A.J. Butler's “The Arab Conquest of Egypt”, from 1902 also paints a very different picture.
On page 365 he writes:
“The whole country is described as suffering oppression at the hands of the Muslims”

The conditions are laid out where, on page 321 he writes:
For the payment of tribute and taxes constituted them a protected people (ahl adh dhimmah) with a status implying these privileges. The tribute was fixed at two dinârs per head for all except very old men and children, and the total capitation-tax was found to amount to 12,000,000 dinârs, or about £6,000,000 but in addition to the capitation-tax, a land-tax or property-tax was imposed.


The non-Muslim Egyptians welcomed their liberators.

30:00  Oppression and all forms of genocide would justify progressive jihad.
1.              Invites anyone to accept belief
2.              Invites to immigrate
3.              War

This is to remove the political structure or the barrier to the promotion of peace and justice of Islam.

33:00  If Islam goes to war it is not for money but to remove oppression, to show people the mercy, the rahma of the system of Islam. He quotes some Jew who praises Muslims
34:00  USA geopolitical wars, shifting its army, nothing humanitarian. France and UK are expanding for access to African resources. Political parties claiming they want equality and a defence of democratic values, All not true. Repeats Spain and Jews again and again.
35:45  again and again removal of oppression and injustice
36:30  Koran. Mentions justified violence. To promote Islamic justice in war.
40:00  quotes 4:75 for some reason, to remove oppression and help oppressed people
41:00  results of jihad. We can’t talk about jihad today because we don’t have an Islamic nation so we have to talk about the past.

When, in the history of mankind, was there one Islamic nation?

Reinhard Dosy Spain Christians happy with tolerance of Muslims
Prof Thomas Arnold Christians Spain ecstatic
Names and more names all describing Islam as paradise on Earth

46:00  Most suicide bombers are Tamil Tigers. Muslim suicide bombers appear where the ASA had or has armed forces. Iraq, before the invasion of the USA had not a single suicide bomber. Political injustice provides the reason for the proponents of such so-called terrorist attacks.
Prof Pape continues: there is little connection between suicide terrorism and Islamic fundamentalism or any one of the world’s religions. They have a secular goal. Allahu akbar

48:00  The events in London were triggered by the occupation of Iraq.

So an army fighting a dictator is the reason why civilians of that country should die.

We must condemn terrorist acts – but we have to be nuanced.

We have to understand the role of negative Western foreign policy.

This has exasperated the sense of injustice which facilitates this terrorism.

Totally deluded, thinking that there were really regions, nations, people calling for Muslims. Calling to Muslims: please oppress us and impose your 7th century superstitions and backward ideology on us.



05 September 2013

Timeline of "The Rationaliser Debunked" video on YouTube




Intro
0:05           requirements
0:06           not a science book
0:06           Koran is very clear, where just now it was for experts only
0:07           purpose, scientific miracles = disease in their hearts
0:10           21:30 don’t they see? Plural of canopies.
                  “heavens and the earth were of one piece, then We parted them, and we made every living thing of water”
                  Rationalizer thinks canopies are flat.
0:12           canopy, jet, canopy, canopy is a canopy. Rationalizer wants to deviate, deceive and lead astray, he is not  sincere
0:15           requirements, Arabic 99% of Arabic speaking people can’t understand the Koran
0:16           Islam Channel, Bilal Philips e=mc2 is shirk, I am a theoretical physicist. This is a formula for a particle at rest. For a particle which is moving, that formula is completely different.
0:17           people who believe in this equation
0:19           the heat is dissipitated and we make something from this energy
0:19           Zakir Naik, says Earth is a spheroid based on the Koran.  Is he wrong?
                   Example 39: 5 He created the heavens and the earth truthfully. He rolls the night over the day, and rolls the day over the night
                   Now he’s a mathematical physicist
0:26           tafsirs don’t support this, Koran can be understood by normal people
0:28           Rationalizer, unbelievable, some Earth was flat and some spherical. Muhammad believed flat.
0:29           Board Muslims vs non-Muslims, both ignorant, mis-translating, lying, arrogant, making things up
0:33           trained in making things up
0:34           back in those days they had hadith fabrication schools
0:36           humans are humans and the Koran helps to be a good human
0:37           Muslims and non-Muslims battle and people in the middle get confused
                   (why don’t they read?)
0:38           story of him in the mosque
0:39           hadiths are not for lay-men, proof: why did a guy write a commentary if it is easy?
0:41           non-Muslims want to deviate people, this is their aim. They want to attack Islam. They think that the Koran is similar to Bible. They have no clue.
0:42           mis-this and mis-that are also done by orientalists. (It’s always the others!)
0:43           they can’t find anything wrong with the Koran so they look for mistakes in the translations to deceive people. And they are trying to deceive you. Muslims group Muslims.
0:46           a clueless victim, a Muslim complains that Christians only need to defend their Bible. Muslims, however, need to defend the Koran, the Hadiths AND the Tafsirs.
                   (Poor boy! Because the Koran is so vague and ambiguous, there is a need for a commentary. And the hadiths. And commentaries on the hadiths. If the Islamic god had made things clear – as is promised in the Koran – there would be no need for all the secondary texts)
0:48           people are not reading the Koran properly, Rationaliser is one of them. He’s not showing people the truth, he’s just mocking them. So he’s mocking with himself, but I don’t want to go through everything he says.
0:49           Now he, philosophically, confirms what Rationalizer said earlier. But he says it’s unbelievable when Columbus proved it. (What is he talking about???)
0:50           Rationalizer says Muhammad thought Earth was flat. Unbelievable. (Is that what he says? What does Muhammad say about the shape of Earth?)
                   Muslims and non-Muslims take sentences out of context. The Koran has 114 chapters and each chapter tackles certain things. (Really?) For a reason it is called a chapter. A chapter is a different chapter. Amazing.
0:53           Example, example, Rationalizer. Mocking. (Misrepresenting.) He thinks Muhammad wrote the Koran. He’s not sincere. Deceive. Read the Koran and you will see the characteristics. But the companions knew the hypocrites.
0:54           madda. They say that the Koran says that Earth is flat. (where does Rationalizer say this?) Explains the word maddha. Longer, larger, smooth, even, flat
                   (13:3 And He it is Who spread out the earth and placed therein firm hills and flowing streams)
                   (15:19 And the earth have We spread out, and placed therein firm hills, and caused each seemly thing to grow therein)
0:58           This guy is talking nonsense. It is so clear. I will show you looking at ard and madda. Ard is earth we stand on. We spread it, made it even. Does it say anything about the shape? The ceiling is the opposite of the earth or ground we stand on. Ceiling is the opposite. Or canopy and protected.
1:00           I made this earth comfortable and liveable. “Do you”
1:02           These people are sick in their mentality, they want to deceive. Show me my mistakes. Accept them.
1:03           The question is: ard and madda, they mean what? Rationalizer does not speak Arabic, Ignorance. Ignorance of Titans.
1:05           Question: Are there classic commentators? They all agree in saying spread out. Dahaha is like sutahad is like daha, like kurua and gets lost
1:07           If a person thinks this is flat or spherical, god will not punish them (no, of course not, he created this mess), so the advice is to accept the stretched out and not to worry about the shape of the planet. (Does making it flat indicate a sphere?)
1:08           Earth is not in the same shape as it was
1:09           These are theories
1:10           The atmosphere changed everything. Earth was different. It was hostile. God made it perfect. God separated heavens and earth and created water. Then Earth was smoothed down. Plate tectonics move divergence convergence mountains
1:13           lava, gas, atmosphere, continents, Pangaea, lava, atmosphere, convergence, mountains, goodness for people in mountains. Stretched. Asteroids look like peanuts. Earth is a sphere. Why? Internal Gravity.
1:16           Atmosphere built nicely, oxygen, ozone layer. UV light rays, mezzosphere protects us from meteorites. It is a protective ceiling for us.
1:17           This guy thinks that Earth is flat and the canopy is flat. If it would be chance, the atmosphere would be full of sulphuric acid and CO2 (reality: 78.09% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.039% carbon dioxide)(sulphuric acid is not a gas, but a liquid, not SO2) and the Earth would be hot and hostile in the beginning and not suitable for complex organisms. (early Earth WAS hot and hostile)
1:18           scientists confirm that the planet was just perfect for life. It has been planned. It is all measured, created. Not by chance.
1:19           Question: Rationalizer is taking it out of context. What is the intended meaning? Fight against people who don’t believe is about being in self-defence who attack you, those you need to fight. (not talk, but fight). What happens to POW’s, how you treat them.
1:21           People like Rationalizer don’t understand and have not studied geometry or topology. Pilots know when you analyse geometry of thing, we look at like local co-ordinates or global co-ordinates.
1:22           People are so ignorant and this leads to absurdity. Me, for his benefit his equation is false.  Common sense and ignorance do not lead to absolute you need to be a charlatan as well. He thinks he knows everything and jokes but fools himself.
1:23           Google geometry, topology, manifolds, GPS, differential geometry, (three-dimensional Euclidean space, a triangle will have different characteristics depending on surface) local and global, which is locally flat. Carpet in a room. A carpet can’t be a spheroid carpet, but a flat carpet.
1:26           Earth is locally flat. Globally spherical. Euclidean dimensions, co-ordinates, xyz
1:28           this guy denies up and down. He shows that if Earth is a spheroid, this is up and this is up as well. (Exactly! On a flat Earth it would not happen) Question: I saw the video and that was a gaffe, basically. (a verbal error) He has no understanding… he is confusing non-Muslims, he has no understanding of geometry either. He doesn’t even have a sense of direction. And he makes YouTube videos. Updownleftright
1:29           Do we have a concept of up and down, like upstairs?
                   Audience: According to Rationalizer we are on a sphere and there is no up and down. (just 6 minutes ago he was able to differentiate between global and local)
                   Yes, because he thinks he’s a big giant, like you know, I don’t know what he thinks of himself
                   Audience: he compares himself to the size of the Universe maybe.
                   Yeah, this, like, this is a sickness, it’s just, seriously I’m even erm I didn’t even want to do this like erm talk and talk about this guy because it’s like no science erm I don’t know it’s just this guy doesn’t know anything.
 1:29          anyway, this what we call egocentric coordinates (geocentric coordinates = Earth-centered system), relative direction, translation, study co-ordinates, sense of co-ordination, as this guy doesn’t.
1:30           We say that gravity pulls objects down. So whatever object is moving away from gravity is moving upwards (again contradicting himself). I have studied from seriously like Primary School till like PhD. All I dealt with “things like gravity”. Up/down, all the time. So according to his mentality, this doesn’t exist on this spherical xxx.
1:31           And then also he’s extremely confused and he’s trying to like confuse others as well.  The pillars which you cannot see.
                   (13:2 It is Allah Who has raised the heavens without any supports that you could see)
                   (31:10 He created the heavens without any pillars visible to you)
                   I haven’t seen a single house which is just in the air. So the question is, for normal people, not for people like the Rationalizer, because he’s super intelligent, that’s why he thinks that he’s criticising this verse, the verse clearly saying, that allah raised the canopies or the heavens – erm - without – the – like – the pillars that you cannot see basically. Pillars that you cannot see.
1:33           Audience: so using his genius brain probably thinks this means invisible pillars.
                   Exactly, this is again the sickness. Like we can’t see things and allah can do anything. Like I have studied gravity. All the scientists don’t even know what gravity is. We don’t know, seriously. Like space-time. We don’t know what space-time is, what it looks like, we have no clue. ( a quick Google search would have helped: NASA has announced the results of an epic physics experiment which confirms the reality of a space-time vortex around our planet.)
1:34           Same thing with gravity. We believe gravity is because of gravitons. (it’s a boson which could mediate the force of gravitation in the framework of quantum field theory) Electromagnetic force, weak force have particles, so why not gravity. We have measured we have made experiments that such a force exist. Gravity is not the kind of pillars that we can see.  An invisible pillar, at the end of the day the pillar is there, to hold that thing like you know place. So gravity does that. (gravity stops the roof from falling to the ground?)
1:35           Audience: according to these people basically, the Koran can’t use any figurative language, so if it says pillars, it must be actual pillars.
                   Yeah, it’s rubbish
                   Audience: and if it says flat it means flat
                   Yeah that’s what he does. He says for example why does it say he raised up? It should say far away, far away. These stars or heavens
1:36           This guy doesn’t even know what cosmology is all about. Not all stars are made up far away. (really?) We have to know that the Universe has been accelerating. Expanding. So they were all like next to one another. Right? And then the expansion started and then they were already like made d’you understand, the birth were already happened. And then they start like ok some of them they are still being made.  But not all of them.  So9 if you want to be really accurate, he is again flopping. Like all the time. Waffle ramble
1:38           What would be the point of allah saying: I made Earth spherical? What’s the point of this? Then I would say you made my life difficult. Do you understand? Preaching … Everything is created in pairs.
1:39           Earth is so perfect for humans
                   500,000 earthquakes per year and only 0.02% cause damage. (That’s 1 every 3 days, actually, ~800,000 deaths in 10 years)
1:40           Allah threatens people who go against him with earthquakes. I am not saying that this verse talks about gravity. As a scientist and as a thinker it just comes to my mind. The word is not there neither any indications.
1:41           Audience: is there any verse which says we are not living on a flat Earth. No. There is a verse where people say this about the Big Bang, separated heavens and the Earth, this is stupid. Singularity. Big Bang.  Theory. String Theory.
1:45           Studied like cosmology, wrote  this a research paper about like, you know, this space-time Big Bang, black holes, in essence, string theory,  like, you know, never have I seen a drop of water after Big Bang
1:47           mountains are stable, living on a mountain, like the Andes in Argentina, where weather changes, a house on sand will collapse during an earthquake and built on a mountain is stable, mountains will move like clouds, because of tectonic plates
1:56           mountains are like pegs, like anchors, placed on top of the crust, stabilising the area
2:03           Carpets are for sitting, not to make a surface flat, to be comfortable
2:05           Audience: it is xenophobic (unduly fearful or contemptuous of that which is foreign), isn’t it basically, you see the carpet so you want to take the meaning of flatness from that. It’s xenophobic and they want to show that the people were into the flat Earth and he wants to show they are flat Earthers, they are stupid. That’s what he’s after the Rationalizer
                   Yes, you also need to look at curvature and the local geometry, for example the Universe (global, not local), if we are talking about global geometry it is the topology of the Universe.
2:07           Euclidian geometry with a curvature of 0 is flat. Etc. This makes it clear. How we deal with things.
2:08           Audience: what do you say to Muslims who claim mountains are like pegs which represents a miracle?
                   To be honest, I just laugh at these people. (he just said the opposite a few minutes ago) Mountains are there, they will be there in 100 years and in 100 million years, they will have moved a bit. Plates move and mountains are like pegs. So there is no scientific error.
2:15           Audience: why is he so keen to show that Earth is flat?
                   I don’t know. He doesn’t know what this verse is related to, so he’s just talking rubbish.
2:18           This guy is taking quotes from Bible and comparing them to Koran, saying that Koran copied from Bible. There is not a single verse in the Koran which mentions roots of mountains.
2:19           You are the reference point, you can look up. Gravity pulls you down.
                   Audience: so relative to the Universe there is no up or down?
                   Yes, yeah, it’s like, yeah, if you think like erm, you don’t even know and the other thing is you know these people – what are they saying? You know, Big Bang or what are they saying? - - some people claim that like they can like see – erm – you know the funny thing is – you know the people who claim – erm – like  - erm – big bang or the heavens and the earth they were together and bla bla – like – 96% of the Universe is dark. No clue. Only 4% is visible.
2:21           The Koran says that the stars are like lamps and they beautify our sky and we have no knowledge. As a scientist I accept this and I cannot say more.
2:22           The other thing is like he makes this assumption that if Earth is flat, then the sky is flat too. OK? Again like stupid thing. Xxx you know, like we said we can get like canopies. Like this.  And you know the funny thing is, you can even like get it read it in some texts, they would explain the atmosphere, is like stretching, stretching, so, if the atmosphere is stretching, the Earth, the surface is also stretching. OK? The atmosphere is around the Earth. Does that make sense to you?
                   Nobody answers
                   So, the surface also stretches. So we have things like elasticity, plasticity,
2:27           Allah created 7 like ceilings and 7 earths. What does this mean? We need to look into that but today was only to show the serious mistakes of these people, of non-Muslims and Muslims
2:30           I studied astro-physics, so I know this is last phase of sun, which is called Red Giant. The light of the stars will be going down kind of thing. They will emit in longer wave-lengths because again I studied like astro-physics.
2:35           (a last, desperate attempt) audience: are you saying there are no scientific miracles in the Koran?
                   No, there are miracles in the Koran, the Koran itself is a miracle, if you know how to read it.
2:39           Let me see, yeah, as we said like for example I have been on mountains, I have climbed mountains, ok?, I never felt like I have been shaken or this stuff.
2:45           From here we can see that these people not only literalists, they are also like they are living in cuckoo land. That’s what I can say. They have no clue like about language, about science, nothing.
2:46           the message is clear. Things were not good in the beginning, then they were made perfect.

Thank you.

A more simplified timeline

00:10:00 - 00:25:00 repudiating Bilal Philips, Zakir Naik
00:30:00 Muslims mistranslating/lying for Scientific miracles
00:34:00 Muslims fabricating hadith/ translations
00:48:00 Finally gets to TheRationalizer
00:49:00 People knew from 600 BCE that the earth was spherical
00:50:00 TheRationalizer claimed that Muhammad was Flat-Earther (FE) because he is from a 7th century desert
00:50:15 Not a single verse saying the Earth is flat
00:50:30 Muslims and Non-Muslims take verse out of context
00:53:15 Rationalizer said "Allah chin up"/ contradiction (Chuck doesn't have a sense of humor)
00:54:50 Rationalize uses "Madda"
00:58:00 The word "Ard" means ground (not the whole earth)
01:05:00 Tafsirs on Ard and Madda and other words
01:06:15 Tafsir al-Jalalyn (does not fully quote him)
01:08:20 Qur'an does not mention what the shape of the Earth is/ Rationalizer is making things up
01:09:00 Stretching/ Elongating/ Spreading does not mean a flat-earth
01:10:00 Earth was hostile/ Allah evened it out/ that is the meaning of the verses
01:12:00 Plate tectoncs
01:17:00 The atmosphere protects us
01:17:30 Rationalizer believes the canopy is flat
01:18:40 "Scientists believe Earth just worked out to be perfect for life" (Sigh)
01:23:00 More and More ad hominems (getting boring now)!
01:24:00 THe earth is "locally flat"/ Global vs Local coordinates etc etc
01:25:00 Carpets are flat for "locall flat" earth
01:27:45 TheRationalizer denies "up" and "down" / More ad hominems
01:30:00 TheRationalizer has no sense of direction, coordination/ More ad hominem (blah blah)
01:31:45 "The pillars you cannot see" / not referring to invisible pillars/ interprets them as gravity
01:36:00 Therationalizer claims the Quran should have said the "heavens are far away"
01:38:00 If allah had said the earth is spherical, it would have made our lives difficult (???)
01:40:00 Earthquakes are to threaten people
01:40:20 Disclaimer about the "gravity" reinterpretation
01:41:00 Only share the "gravity"retinterpretation with "levelheaded" people
01:41:35 Chuck repudiates the "big bang miracle claim"
01:47:00 Unshakeable mountains - does not mean they can't be moved by plate tectonics
01:51:30 Quran actually says that the mountains move like clouds ... on the day of judgement
01:56:00 Mountains as pegs ... why does rationalizer assume this means mountains are fixed?
02:03:00 Nothing wrong with saying Earth is like a carpet
02:05:00 a student behind the camera - The rationalizer is xenophobic (lol)
02:07:45 criticizing 'mountain miracle" claims
02:11:00 Quotes sura 13:4/ claims it says neighboring land segments move (not found in the translations)
02:12:00 Need to understand the verse with reference to human beings ... and not geological time scales
02:14:30 Therationalizer talks about the earth on the day of judgement and misses the point
02:18:00 TheRationalizer compares the quran with verses from the bible/ the roots of the mountains
02:20:00 Criticizing the big bang miracle again/
02:21:00 Stars as lamps
02:22:00 Rationalizer claimed if the earth is flat the sky is flat too
02:24:00 the "atmosphere" is raised up/ sky is a protective ceiling/
02:25:00 Criticizes big bang again
02:25:30 Meaning of "heaven" in the quran
02:27:45 a lot of imams are jokers
02:28:20 "shamsat quvirat" (the sun coils..)/interprets it as the red giant
02:33:40 Disclaimer about his reinterpretations
02:34:20 "Falling stars" is a mistranslation
02:35:30 Are there any scientific miracles in the Quran?
02:38:30 Miracle apologists are fanatics/ not humble
02:40:00 Jalalyn on Mountains
02:41:30 Quotes 21:104 (folding of heavens)
02:47:00 The world is dangerous because people deceive other people