The scientific miracle claim of mountains in the Koran
When reading this text, where would you think it comes from?
These scriptures are the literal word of god which he revealed to his chosen people through signs and incarnations. They were written down as god went on to speak. From the day the scriptures were revealed until this day there have always been a huge number of followers who have memorised all of the scripture letter by letter. Some of them have even been able to memorise all of the scriptures by the age of 10. Not one letter has been changed over the centuries. Followers hold that this is unchanged to date. The scriptures which were revealed many centuries ago, mentioned facts only recently discovered or proven by scientists. This proves without doubt that these are the words of god revealed by him in the book. This also proves that the scripture is the true faith and eternal law for all religions. It is beyond reason that anyone even before Abraham or even before Adam and Eve walked on earth could have known these facts, discovered or proven only recently with advanced equipment and sophisticated scientific methods.
Well, it comes from the Hindus, written 4000 years before Muhammad. Here is the quote with the Hindu names intact. If I were a Muslim, I would now start scratching my head and asking myself: which one is more right. As I am not I simply state that both can't be right - but they can both be wrong.
Other books also say much the same about their own gods and heroes.
As I distinctively heard Muslim miracle seekers mention mountains as pegs and that "we have recently come to know" that mountains have a function let's see what the Hindu Rig Veda says on this topic:
So this is not the Shruti and only from one of the 4 Vedas, but nevertheless the people who wrote the Koran, faithfully copied the idea which seems to have appealed to them. And, because we are talking about the Islamic Koran, they copied it several times, such as:
And so on, you get the idea.
What appealed to the primitive tribes of the 7th century was the idea that Earth was being held together by nails, not necessarily round like here in the video, but pieces of flat carpet held together. And here the analogy actually fits the description in the Koran. But nailing together entire continents - well they didn't know about plates yet - seems a bit different when you consider what really takes place.
This means that Muslims in the 21st century have a problem showing that the Koran is compatible with reality. Initially, the story was to stop earthquakes, but when they were badly burnt by the all too obvious facts, Muslim miracle seekers quickly back paddled and called it shaking or swaying. Well, as English is more precise than Arabic, we have a word for a swaying and shaking ground: earthquake. Reality does not accept that the sheer weight of a human moving about causes an earthquake which can be subdued by a mountain, so Muslims had to look elsewhere for an explanation for their so-called function for a mountain.
But they were still limited by the darned use of the word "peg", which they could not dismiss. While the Koran - unfortunately for Muslims - nowhere says: "Earth is almost spherical" or: "Earth orbits the sun", it does say: mountains are pegs.
So they got creative and invented the word "root" for the mountains in the Koran. This word was actually being used in the real world - albeit in a different context - but since when has that stopped a miracle seeker? Then they came up with scientific words such as isostasy. And Greek philosophers who had mused about buoyancy. The new result was that mountains were not a result of the movement of tectonic plates, but were planted by Allah as stabilisers. Now that they knew the results, they went off to prove this.
When I started reading up on this, I looked for the sources of this new miracle claim. Because I don't have the Bucaille book I could not link him with this. I found the usual suspect, the Harun Yahya dreamworks, where the claim is found on the webpage in the normal way and in the book "Allah's miracles in the Qu'ran" in the familiar copy/paste format. It is copy/paste as the footnotes are present as normal text. As hard as I tried, I was unable to trace this to the root of the document. I did find my favourite Egyptian clown on the way, the inimitable Professor Dr. Zaghloul El-Naggar.
He cites various surahs, such as 86 (The Night-Comer), 79 (Those Who Pull Out) and 78 (The Great News) to provide us with the news "That these sudden jerky movements" really do require mountains.
I did not make this up and I don't think I could. I am sorry, but it's really hard to keep a straight face here.
On his page you can read all about the function of mountains all the way to how, some centuries ago, the moon was split into 2 pieces and was miraculously glued together again - so badly that you can still see the seams today. And you can buy Islamic taps, when the British ones simply aren't good enough.
Where does he get this from? I wrote him a message, asking for some sort of proof for his claimed academic credentials, with the result that they disappeared from his page. I found out that his tuition function was at an Islamic faith school in the UK and an enquiry sent to the University where he allegedly obtained his Ph.D. could only confirm that he enrolled, but neither his dissertation nor his exit level could be provided, even though I explicitly asked for them.
So what did I have so far? Not a lot. I DID have a whole lot of claims without any proof or evidence and quite a few open ends. The dahwa sites all provide the same diagrams and the same text, as per usual, but I could not ascertain the author.
Other critics had already taken up the challenge and found that the often quoted Dr. Frank Press had made no statement regarding the 'function' of mountains whatsoever in his book "Earth" and never said that it was to 'stabilise the earth'. It's all just a fabrication.
He showed the same pages I had seen quoted as irrevocable proof so many times and that the text was changed to suit the claims in the Koran.
So I decided to do a bit of digging on my own. I found that earthquakes, sorry: the shaking of the ground mostly occurred along the fault lines which caused the "creation" of mountains, which would also account for the earthquakes in those mountain regions. I found that isostasy actually is the opposite of a fixed mountain as it refers to the balance or equilibrium between gravity and the buoyancy of the crust which continuously fluctuates with the formation of new mountains.
There are several kinds of mountains: Dome Mountains are formed when melted rock pushes its way up under earth. Fault Block Mountains are formed when faults or cracks in the earth's crust force some materials or blocks of rock up and others down. Fold Mountains are formed as layers of the earth react to forces pushing in on either side, much as a piece of paper folds when pushed together. Volcanic Mountains are formed from by hardened lava after spurting out of a volcano. Residual Mountains are mountains that are really plateaus that have worn down from erosion, so there is no single type of mountain with a single function.
If you look at the continental crust, which is low density and thick as opposed to the oceanic crust which is more dense and thin, you can appreciate that to counteract gravity, the weight of a mountain being formed by moving tectonic plates requires a bigger "root" or base due to buoyancy.
The final death knell is dealt to these intellectual lightweights when you consider the following point brought up in a forum, where a Muslim was gloating when he found the word "root" in a mathematical geology treatise.
However, if you go to the page in question you find that if you actually understand what it says is that as erosion diminishes the weight of the part sticking out into the atmosphere, isostasy is the factor that causes the mountain to balance the effects of gravity and buoyancy, moving upwards, rendering the fixed mountain statement obsolete and totally, completely and utterly wrong.
Sorry.
Once again it shows that the authors of the Koran had no idea of what humans would find 1000 years later and only catered for their immediate environment and era. It also shows that the Koran is a cocktail of Hindu, Jewish, Christian and Arabic superstitions, myths and legends all mixed together and presented in a book only Muslims will call well written. If you really value your belief in an old book more than what the intellect should tell you, then do - by all means - believe that mountains have a function. All others I welcome to the real world.
Thank you for your time
When reading this text, where would you think it comes from?
These scriptures are the literal word of god which he revealed to his chosen people through signs and incarnations. They were written down as god went on to speak. From the day the scriptures were revealed until this day there have always been a huge number of followers who have memorised all of the scripture letter by letter. Some of them have even been able to memorise all of the scriptures by the age of 10. Not one letter has been changed over the centuries. Followers hold that this is unchanged to date. The scriptures which were revealed many centuries ago, mentioned facts only recently discovered or proven by scientists. This proves without doubt that these are the words of god revealed by him in the book. This also proves that the scripture is the true faith and eternal law for all religions. It is beyond reason that anyone even before Abraham or even before Adam and Eve walked on earth could have known these facts, discovered or proven only recently with advanced equipment and sophisticated scientific methods.
Well, it comes from the Hindus, written 4000 years before Muhammad. Here is the quote with the Hindu names intact. If I were a Muslim, I would now start scratching my head and asking myself: which one is more right. As I am not I simply state that both can't be right - but they can both be wrong.
Other books also say much the same about their own gods and heroes.
The Hávamál proclaims the words of Odin the High One.
Since this is so then it is obvious that Odin is king of the gods since the
book says so.
The first men were created by whittling wood from the
sea. It must be true because it says so in the Hávamál and the Hávamál is a
holy book.
The world was created in the Ginnungagap. The book
says so, it must be true.
As is well known the angel Moroni appeared to Joseph
Smith and he became a prophet of the Mormons. Given that he is much later than
prophet Muhammad, he must be closer to the truth mustn't he?
As I distinctively heard Muslim miracle seekers mention mountains as pegs and that "we have recently come to know" that mountains have a function let's see what the Hindu Rig Veda says on this topic:
"Sabita made this Earth fixed by different
devices (like hills and mountains) and sustains sky without pillars so that it
does not move" [RIG VEDA]
So this is not the Shruti and only from one of the 4 Vedas, but nevertheless the people who wrote the Koran, faithfully copied the idea which seems to have appealed to them. And, because we are talking about the Islamic Koran, they copied it several times, such as:
13:3
|
And He it is
Who spread out the earth and placed therein firm hills and flowing streams...
|
15:19
|
And the
earth have We spread out, and placed therein firm hills, and caused each
seemly thing to grow therein.
|
41:10
|
He placed
therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its
sustenance in four Days, alike for (all) who ask;
|
50:7
|
And the
earth have We spread out, and have flung firm hills therein, and have caused
of every lovely kind to grow thereon,
|
77:27
|
And placed
therein high mountains and given you to drink sweet water therein?
|
And so on, you get the idea.
What appealed to the primitive tribes of the 7th century was the idea that Earth was being held together by nails, not necessarily round like here in the video, but pieces of flat carpet held together. And here the analogy actually fits the description in the Koran. But nailing together entire continents - well they didn't know about plates yet - seems a bit different when you consider what really takes place.
This means that Muslims in the 21st century have a problem showing that the Koran is compatible with reality. Initially, the story was to stop earthquakes, but when they were badly burnt by the all too obvious facts, Muslim miracle seekers quickly back paddled and called it shaking or swaying. Well, as English is more precise than Arabic, we have a word for a swaying and shaking ground: earthquake. Reality does not accept that the sheer weight of a human moving about causes an earthquake which can be subdued by a mountain, so Muslims had to look elsewhere for an explanation for their so-called function for a mountain.
But they were still limited by the darned use of the word "peg", which they could not dismiss. While the Koran - unfortunately for Muslims - nowhere says: "Earth is almost spherical" or: "Earth orbits the sun", it does say: mountains are pegs.
So they got creative and invented the word "root" for the mountains in the Koran. This word was actually being used in the real world - albeit in a different context - but since when has that stopped a miracle seeker? Then they came up with scientific words such as isostasy. And Greek philosophers who had mused about buoyancy. The new result was that mountains were not a result of the movement of tectonic plates, but were planted by Allah as stabilisers. Now that they knew the results, they went off to prove this.
When I started reading up on this, I looked for the sources of this new miracle claim. Because I don't have the Bucaille book I could not link him with this. I found the usual suspect, the Harun Yahya dreamworks, where the claim is found on the webpage in the normal way and in the book "Allah's miracles in the Qu'ran" in the familiar copy/paste format. It is copy/paste as the footnotes are present as normal text. As hard as I tried, I was unable to trace this to the root of the document. I did find my favourite Egyptian clown on the way, the inimitable Professor Dr. Zaghloul El-Naggar.
He cites various surahs, such as 86 (The Night-Comer), 79 (Those Who Pull Out) and 78 (The Great News) to provide us with the news "That these sudden jerky movements" really do require mountains.
I did not make this up and I don't think I could. I am sorry, but it's really hard to keep a straight face here.
On his page you can read all about the function of mountains all the way to how, some centuries ago, the moon was split into 2 pieces and was miraculously glued together again - so badly that you can still see the seams today. And you can buy Islamic taps, when the British ones simply aren't good enough.
Where does he get this from? I wrote him a message, asking for some sort of proof for his claimed academic credentials, with the result that they disappeared from his page. I found out that his tuition function was at an Islamic faith school in the UK and an enquiry sent to the University where he allegedly obtained his Ph.D. could only confirm that he enrolled, but neither his dissertation nor his exit level could be provided, even though I explicitly asked for them.
So what did I have so far? Not a lot. I DID have a whole lot of claims without any proof or evidence and quite a few open ends. The dahwa sites all provide the same diagrams and the same text, as per usual, but I could not ascertain the author.
Other critics had already taken up the challenge and found that the often quoted Dr. Frank Press had made no statement regarding the 'function' of mountains whatsoever in his book "Earth" and never said that it was to 'stabilise the earth'. It's all just a fabrication.
He showed the same pages I had seen quoted as irrevocable proof so many times and that the text was changed to suit the claims in the Koran.
So I decided to do a bit of digging on my own. I found that earthquakes, sorry: the shaking of the ground mostly occurred along the fault lines which caused the "creation" of mountains, which would also account for the earthquakes in those mountain regions. I found that isostasy actually is the opposite of a fixed mountain as it refers to the balance or equilibrium between gravity and the buoyancy of the crust which continuously fluctuates with the formation of new mountains.
There are several kinds of mountains: Dome Mountains are formed when melted rock pushes its way up under earth. Fault Block Mountains are formed when faults or cracks in the earth's crust force some materials or blocks of rock up and others down. Fold Mountains are formed as layers of the earth react to forces pushing in on either side, much as a piece of paper folds when pushed together. Volcanic Mountains are formed from by hardened lava after spurting out of a volcano. Residual Mountains are mountains that are really plateaus that have worn down from erosion, so there is no single type of mountain with a single function.
If you look at the continental crust, which is low density and thick as opposed to the oceanic crust which is more dense and thin, you can appreciate that to counteract gravity, the weight of a mountain being formed by moving tectonic plates requires a bigger "root" or base due to buoyancy.
The final death knell is dealt to these intellectual lightweights when you consider the following point brought up in a forum, where a Muslim was gloating when he found the word "root" in a mathematical geology treatise.
However, if you go to the page in question you find that if you actually understand what it says is that as erosion diminishes the weight of the part sticking out into the atmosphere, isostasy is the factor that causes the mountain to balance the effects of gravity and buoyancy, moving upwards, rendering the fixed mountain statement obsolete and totally, completely and utterly wrong.
Sorry.
Once again it shows that the authors of the Koran had no idea of what humans would find 1000 years later and only catered for their immediate environment and era. It also shows that the Koran is a cocktail of Hindu, Jewish, Christian and Arabic superstitions, myths and legends all mixed together and presented in a book only Muslims will call well written. If you really value your belief in an old book more than what the intellect should tell you, then do - by all means - believe that mountains have a function. All others I welcome to the real world.
Thank you for your time
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